Post by John CrispI would agree that trying to KISS, minimise dependencies, and no hidden
surprises is always a good thing.
KISS is subjective. As for the surprise, well, at which point the
dependency chain becomes a surprise ? A number of packages ? A total
size in Mo ? All the PHP stuff is just clean dependency of DL, and as
long as there's no dependency issue, everything is in the correct repo,
and everything works as explained in the doc, I see no issue.
Post by John CrispHaving spent a couple of days on and off messing with this, I have been
giving this a bit more thought and believe that there are some great
opportunities to make a mess of an SME installation, particularly for
some of the less experienced users.
If things are breaking (which it might, it's working for me but want
feedback from others), then please explain what's breaking and how, and
I'll try my best to fixe it.
Post by John CrispWhere I think it gets tricky is particularly if you have SCL installed
already.
So you are running SCL (which I think a lot of people do).
You decide to say install Download Ticket. This then pulls in the php-fm
dependencies on which it now depends - there is nothing in the wiki to
say this would happen.
I don't see a particular need to details every dependency in the wiki.
Stay simple. Why would an average user be frighten with things like SCL
which he doesn't care about ? He wants DL, and DL he will have running.
That's it. The details of how the PHP engine is used is an
implementation detail.
Post by John CrispConversely, you could have an older version of DL installed already,
added SCL, and for whatever good reason update the DL contrib.
Yes, I need to make dependency version more specific, like you pointed
out yesterday. Will try to correct this.
Post by John CrispNow you have SCl running PHP on an ibay and php-fm running DL - at least
that is what I presume happens
Indeed.
Post by John CrispYes, I know that the two systems can theoretically lie side by side as
they rely on a lot of common packages.
But will the user know what is going on, and what controls what?
Should they ? Maybe I could write a bit of doc for where to find logs
for FPM pools. But, appart from this, what users should do as long as
everything is working ?
Post by John CrispThe db
keys look very similar and there is plenty of room for confusion there.
Yes, for technical reasons, I had to use the DB keys php56-php-fpm,
php70-php-fpm etc... and not the already existing php56, php70 etc...
The reason is that FPM are services which must be started, so the DB key
must match the service name. I used the same prop name as the SCL
contrib though, so only the key changes.
Post by John CrispI'm not completely stupid, but I have had to spend a good while looking
at how this works and the ramifications, and I am still not sure exactly
how secure all this is. I am sure there will be a lot less experienced
users than me who will try to install things without realising all the
consequences.
The inability for php-fm to be used on standard ibays, which the SCL
version can, is a blocker for many I would imagine.
That's something I definitely want to do. I just started with Shared
Folders for two reasons
* It's what I use myself everywhere
* It's a contrib, so I can use it as a playground. I wanted to check
if I made no design mistake before modifying a core package (ibays)
Post by John CrispIt also means if you
want to run say Download Ticket (or a.n. other contrib which now depends
on php-fm) AND a different version of PHP on ibays, you need two
different versions of running PHP, on top of the stock installed php
5.3.3 which is pretty ugly IMHO.
There's nothing ugly. SCL are made specially for that: you can run
several PHP version at the same time. There's 4 major versions available
(stock: 5.3, 5.6, 7.0 and 7.1). With SCL alone you can already run
multiple versions (say 5.6 for one ibay and 7.0 for another).
Now, smeserver-php-fpm just brings another way to use those versions.
But if you use 5.6 with DL running FPM, and 5.6 on an ibay using SCL,
it's exactly the same PHP version. Just another way to run it.
Post by John Crisp(php -v at a prompt gets you pretty
confused....)
php -v will always return the stock PHP version. You can use php56 php70
and php71 binary to run the alternative versions from the command line.
(note that this has nothing to do with FPM. It's exactly the same with
the SCL contrib)
Post by John CrispI am sure that the php-fm solution is probably a good one, and quite
possibly more flexible than the SCL version.
As already explained, it brings performances benefit, pool separations,
and potential security enhancement if you run pools under a specific user
Post by John CrispBut it should surely be easy to swap between the two (which would enable
easy migration) with minimum disruption, which is clearly not the case
at the minute.
Ibays are not yet supported indeed, but you can run both side by side,
so the migration is even smoother, with no disruption.
Post by John CrispCertainly SME v9 benefits from having updated versions of PHP, but
perhaps some more thought needs to be given to potential side effects,
and it's implementation and integration with existing additions to SME.
I perfectly agree with that, and that's why I asked here for some
feedback. If there are side effect, I really want to know, so I can fixe it.
Cheers
Daniel
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*Daniel Berteaud*
FIREWALL-SERVICES SAS.
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